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Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
206
   |
Posted - 2011.12.03 13:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Come on now, guys, everyone knows goons are fat neckbearded OCD people who like to do nothing but sit and click in space.
It's literally the only thing we know how to do. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
206
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 19:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
By all means, quit PI in a huff over the tax increase while muttering about the "ebul goonies", all it means is more isk for me when I do sell my PI stuff. vOv |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
206
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 20:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, except it doesn't. It's spreading extraction and profit across more people than moons have, and EVE didn't die because of them, now did it? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
213
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 12:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Because if you read the other parts of the PI change, it's now possible to run more extraction heads per user then it was before due to the increase in bandwidth for transport on planet per level. Not having to upgrade means more power and CPU is available for other uses, meaning that each individual user is going to be able to suck up a greater percentage of the daily output. That minimal effect just got larger.
I don't know what you used it for, but I used it to make the extraction more flexible, i.e. I can move the extraction pin over a wider area of the planet before tearing down everything and starting on the fun process of migrating the entire PI structure group because the hotspot moved. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
225
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Wait, p0? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
225
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, I know p0 are the raw materials, but that's a pretty dumb thing to do, post PI update doubly so.
I was actually just thinking "well, this explains a few things", I just needed confirmation. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
225
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
So what you're saying is, you're extracting as much p0 as you can, extracting and paying tax on that, hauling that to factory planets, importing and paying tax on that, then going how far up the chain?
Have you done the math on what you're paying in taxes? Because from my napkin math, what you're doing when exporting p0 is paying 1500 isk to export enough p0 to make 20 p1, and then you're importing that at 750 isk pr unit, giving a cost of 2250 isk pr 20 units of p1 that you make. Compare that to what you'd get if you export p1, where 20 units of p1 would cost you 1000 isk. This is all assuming you're doing this in hisec.
Add to that the fact that you're also ending up having to do exports at least once a day, vs once every 4 days or so with p1, and I've no problem with seeing why you're so up in arms over the PI changes, you're literally doing it the worst way imaginable. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
228
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:[Would you rather haul daily? Or would you prefer to only haul ever 4 days? Completely different question. I was simply speaking to the "insane amount of excise tax" that would/would not be paid, not the "insane amount of manual labor" that would be required.
Well, the excess tax was just the easiest to look at, if he's actually in lowsec or nullsec with their own POCO, then we're still left with the insane amount of hauling that this setup requires, and they're apparently effectively dedicating one char to do the actual manufacturing process, instead of having him extract as well. It's been a long while since I did try out the whole factory planet thing in hisec, starting with p0. Turned out it was literally a fucktonne of work for very little return.
As to the typical extraction planet, I used to do 1 ECU, 10 extraction heads, 1 storage pin, one launch pad and as many basic factories as I could shoehorn in. Now that I'm doing p0 to p2 as a test, I'm doing 2 ECUs with 3-5 heads each, 1 storage pin, 3-4 basic and 3-4 advanced, and 1 launchpad. I'm sacrificing some efficiency to separate the p0 from p1/p2. In fact, I'm contemplating making the storage pad a launchpad just for the 10k m3 storage, but I'm evaluating the need for storage capacity vs how quickly the extractors go below the basic factories' appetite before I reset them. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
234
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 08:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hundo Kay wrote:On a well balanced planet, 1 full ECU will support 8 basic factories fairly easily. So over 9 installations I will have 72 Basic Factories to your 66. And I don't have to move stuff between the planets, have the ability to move the ECU in a wide area, and haul once a week (longer now with 35k in the CO). So tell me how your 66 basic factories and hauling crap between them is more productive?
I was suspecting this would be the case, especially if we can only fit one ECU. I'm not sure if you can actually manage to fit 2 ECUs and 1 or 2 LPs, but I couldn't be arsed to do the maths, since it implied going in somewhere and testing the theory.
It's still rather dumb, though. From my perspective it still leaves you so hung up on exporting and importing a lot of materials at least once a day. And if it's in nullsec/lowsec, all it takes is for someone to camp the system/COs for a few days for their profits to go to ****, whereas if you extract to f.ex p2, you can go what looks like at least a week before you have to export anything.
vOv |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
242
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 14:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah, I'm currently experimenting with 2 ECUs with 2-4 heads each, 3-4 basic for each type and 3-4 advanced (depending on whether or not I have excess p1/p0 I want to burn through). It's not the speediest system, but it's a hell of a lot less hassle than what it would be if I went in hard-core for p0 extraction.
Actually, come to think of it, just how quickly would one LP fill up with p0 if you could run two full ECUs? It has to suck up space something fierce. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
245
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 23:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
And how long until you burn out? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
248
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 14:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Again, how long until you burn out?
Edit: And how much extra does all this work give you pr day, if you estimated the value in isk? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Hundo, how much effort you think any one person is putting in? OMG once a day I have to get in my ship and fly once around the system I live in. Oh, the HORROR. I might have to UNDOCK. You might throw a lot of **** in my face, Hundo, but you have '4-4' written across you large. Looks to me like a lot less effort than, say, mining or running missions or hot dropping caps on someone.
So, what do you do when someone figures that your system is a nice system to camp in a cloaked ship, just waiting for you to head out on your daily PI run?
I don't have to undock to collect it more than once a week or every 2 weeks, and I just have to reset the extractors every 2 days or so. This means I can wait a lot longer for someone to give me a 30 minute window than you can, and I suspect that at some point you'll lose profit because of this.
But hey, your game, you do this how you like it. vOv |
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